A serious question for all pro-gun folk here.

[Psychoholic]

I am pro-2nd amendment as well and have severely libertarian views on politics (economic mostly - I do find that I have days when I'm a little more liberal than others, but it depends). I posted this on facebook as well, but I feel that we can be more candid and honest here.

Serious question.

What is the tipping point? What is the point when people go from Facebook Warrior or Message Board Marauder to ACTUAL gun wielding revolutionary? There has to be some point that one has mentally established if they are truly passionate about 'come and take them' (molon labe) that they have decided that taking to arms is the only real option left. When does that happen? Are you willing to die for this belief?

[Guest]

i would say that a vast minority of people would make that transition. As for me personally? i don't know. i still want to have a rewarding career and a family at some point, so i'd have to think long and hard about giving that up.

Honestly, i think we'd see a move by state government (in the red states) to protect us from the federal government trying to confiscate guns, as well as resistance from local law enforcement (in red states or communities). A few states have already introduced bills in their respective legislatures to that effect.

This guy has a pretty good video that answers your questions. i agree with everything he says. if it comes down to forcible confiscation, then i think that's where i would draw the line.

[Dickey]

Isolate a small enough group, make them criminals, rinse, repeat. Most everyone will give up your guns when asked because you'll recognize how truly hopeless resistance would be for each instance when it comes time to hand them over.

It isn't a pleasant thought. I own more than a handful of firearms and was downright ecstatic to pick up a case of 5.56 the other day. That said, I cannot imagine personally resisting an armed gang of thugs that arrive in my yard to confiscate anything that I might own. Even less so if they have the backing of the state behind them. Just look at the Katrina mess. National Guard arrived at private residences that were not abandoned, bound anyone they found inside, searched the premises, confiscated anything of value (firearms, generators, food stores, etc), released the detainees and left without so much as a receipt of what they stole. Not one person was willing to execute those National Guardsmen for what they did. I can't imagine the behavior would be any different elsewhere in this country. Life is a lot more comfortable now and our everyday prisons are less obvious than 237 years ago. Be thankful for that.

"Give me liberty or give me death...or the remote."

[sgath92]

If we use the revolutionary war as a parallel, the public put up with a hell of a lot of increasingly intrusive government actions before there was any bloodshed, and even then it required the government mascaraing unarmed protesting civilians before things started to get anywhere. You could argue whether or not today's government has become too intrusive, but it definitely hasn't started mowing down protesters [an action that seems to be a common prelude to revolution; see the multiple French Revolutions, the overthrow of the Russian monarchy, etc]. Which may go to show why so much taxpayer money has been spent to develop & then purchase crowd control technology like the RF-humve deployed at the '04 NYC GOP national convention [so that if things got out of hand, they could microwave the crowd & encourage them to leave without things getting too crazy].

I wouldn't expect many gun owners to try rebelling until there already is one. Though I would expect many gun owners to try to hide their arms in event of a registration/confiscation plan [like NY is trying to do]. With as many millions of guns in the country as there are, it would be practically impossible for the government to take each one of them even if the law tried to do so [which may be doubtful given the supreme court's recently pro-gun stances]. If there ever were a revolution with today's technology, I would anticipate IEDs being more valuable than firearms. Access to the right materials to do it would be easy, its getting people to know how to do it that would be hard [particularly since the government has such an effective domestic spying program focusing on the internet]. Things as common as aluminum are extremely effective in making explosives, but there are few people who would know how to use it for that.

[Scary Guy]

"but there are few people who would know how to use it for that."

You can learn a majority of just about anything you want on youtube and wiki. There are places to find arcane knowledge too if you know where to look. For example there is this little jewel http://www.defcad.org

I agree with all of what Dicky said and was planning on saying something similar before I read it. They use the news to control us and just don't report on the things they don't want us to know. Pay attention to the private and foreign press. This comes to mind...

http://static.highexistence.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/huxley_orwell1.jpg

(click on it because it's too long to embed in here, also I think they were both right to a degree).

As an an-cap, I'm completely in favor of doing away with government.

[LMS]

I WILL NOT surrender my guns period! None of them. I will die in a pile of smoking brass if it comes to that point.
The second amendment is there to defend against a corrupt government, if they want to disarm us they have reached that level.
They really don't have the man power to do it anyway. Yes they could start small, but word would spread and soon they would start getting taken out. A few ambushes and their confiscation groups would be useless.

We would not be alone if it came to that.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tim-muellers-letter-to-joe-biden-2013-1

[Dickey]

It won't be a pile of smoking brass. It will be a folder of paper work. You will simply be bankrupted and sequestered out of reach to your property. You actively support the government that is doing this to other citizens of this country, what puts your expectations to be treated any differently when it is your turn? Events getting to Ruby Ridge levels are rare; and a similar outcome would be the best you could hope for if such a thing came to pass. I can't imagine Randy Weaver sleeps well at night even though he stood firm to his principles and rebuffed the tyrannical government that ultimately concluded he had done nothing wrong...but also concluded they had not done anything wrong either.

[LMS]

I don't actively support the government, I write letters and cast votes in hope of stopping, or at least slowing down the madness. I like to believe there is still a chance to turn things around. Maybe it is to late though, who knows.
Either way the second amendment is the last stand, when it goes so will whats left of our other freedoms and a fully corrupted government will run amok over the people it then reigns over.

If you don't stay in contact those who are supposed to represent you in congress and cast votes at election time you are just as much of the problem in this country as the corrupt politicians.
So don't come at me with this "You actively support the government that is doing this to other citizens of this country" BS, because it doesn't hold water with me.
We the people have let "our" government get to where it is today by not holding their feet to the fire.

As for Ruby ridge I have met Randy Weaver, we talked for about 15 minutes. I have read his book, it's actually on my desk as I type. The story makes me sick.
I hope things would be different today as we have very fast ways to communicate and spread the word.

[Scary Guy]

Communication only works when it's not monitored/shut down by the government (or corporations on behalf of the government).

And honestly they wouldn't come after you with a squad to take your guns. They'd just take out your house with a drone strike.

[LMS]

Communication only works when it's not monitored/shut down by the government

I have been thinking about that lately. If we beat this round of anti gun measures it will be because of the internet really. Word spread so fast this time through social media that members of congress have been flooded with e-mails, phone calls, and letters to the point they can't even respond, they just keep a tally.
In 94 there was no internet as we know it today, word spread slowly and there wasn't time for the public to react.
So if we beat it this time you can bet in the next few years they will come after control of the internet even harder.

They'd just take out your house with a drone strike.

If it reaches that point we would already be in full civil war like many of the countries in the mid east and I doubt I would be in my house.

[Dickey]

I don't actively support the government, I write letters and cast votes in hope of stopping, or at least slowing down the madness.

...

So don't come at me with this "You actively support the government that is doing this to other citizens of this country" BS, because it doesn't hold water with me.

If you had to categorize the act of sending an entity money on a regular basis, what verb would you use?

[Scary Guy]

If you had to categorize the act of sending an entity money on a regular basis, what verb would you use?

It depends, are you doing it through a donation or a tax?

The first is support and the second is robbery through threat of force.

[LMS]

the second is robbery through threat of force.

This, completely. I look for every tax break I can find when doing my taxes, and bitch about it the whole time.
In this area we are headed right down the toilet as a nation.

[Guest]

a georgia sherrif signed onto the "revolt"

http://hollysprings.patch.com/articles/garrison-won-t-enforce-any-new-laws-that-negate-constitutional-rights

[Dickey]

It depends, are you doing it through a donation or a tax?

The first is support and the second is robbery through threat of force.

That's my point. Most people are unwilling to make the government take something and prefer to willingly give it up. Bitching about giving a no good drunk of an uncle money every week for booze and smokes is still enabling and support.