Letter in response to the bailout - good read.

[Psychoholic]

(verified by snopes-http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/knox.asp)

Letter from Troy Clarke, President of General Motors - followed by a response from Gregory Knox of Knox Machinery:



Dear Employees & Suppliers,



Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history.



Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......................As an employee or supplier, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard.



Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.



Troy Clarke President General Motors North America



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~



From Gregory Knox,



In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me.



You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new "messiah" to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"?



The dream is over!



The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities and that still the masses will line up to buy our products



Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.



Mr. Clark, the president of General Motors, states:



There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in the media that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management.



It is not?



You're right? it's not JUST management how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week.



How about the line workers who threaten newbie’s with all kinds of scare tactics for putting out too many parts on a shift and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!?



How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea:

Over the last few years we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors.



What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!?



Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them?



The K Car vs. the Accord!

The Pinto vs. the Civic!



Do I need to go on?



We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades.



Time to pay for your sins, Detroit!



I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bush and Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day and something else would happen where there had been greedy and sloppy banks new efficient ones would pop up that is how a free market system works it does work if we would let it work?



But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work that we need the government to step in and "save us" save us, hell we're nationalizing and unfortunately too many of this once fine nations citizens don't even have a clue that this is what's really happening but they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams yeah? THAT'S important?



Does it occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this country?



How can that be??? Let's see;



Fuel efficient?

Listening to customers?

Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul?

Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr W Edwards Deming 4 decades ago?

Ever increased productivity through quality, lean and six sigma plans?

Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy"?

Efficient front and back offices?

Non union environment?



Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know in their hearts.



I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did at their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way). I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work them through.



Radical concept, huh!



Am I there for them in the wings? Of course I am, but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults.



I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government.



Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins.



Bad news people it's coming whether we like it or not.



The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away". I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the vote count was tallied "we might not do it in a year or in four?" Where was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for the office?



Stop trying to put off the inevitable.



That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000.



People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits.



That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year.



We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe.



That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home.



Let the market correct itself, people it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it is a nation that appreciates what is has and doesn't live beyond its means and gets back to basics and redevelops the work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world and probably turns back to God.



Sorry don't cut my head off; I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news"

[Morella]

Good reply, and it reminds me so much that I wish I had bought a Hyundai rather than a Ford for the same price...I would have gotten so much more value, and would have three more years of warranty remaining than I do now...but, for that matter, why buy a new car at all? Do you know how many pleasurable things you can do for the price of a new car? Buy an old car, and either fix it up, or just drive it for a year or so until it quits and buy another one. Pay $20 a year to register it instead of $800. Get a better ride, and easier steering. If you want the same gas mileage as a new car, buy a smaller old car. A Dart with a 225 slant will get you into the 20's, and it drives just as well as a new car. If you need it to look nice, put in some new carpet and sew some seat covers and door panels with a $99 sewing machine, then take it to Earl Scheib and paint it. For about $400, it will be as aesthetically pleasing as a "certified preowned" car from a dealer, and save you about $30,000.

-dee

[Psychoholic]

I bought a Corolla for 13k, drive the shit out of it every day - if Ford or Chevy had something realistically that got 37 mpg for that price, I would have considered it, but I didn't find shit.

As far as the pleasure of fixing up an older car to drive - the pleasure is in fixing up a toy or something fun, not in doing cv joints or swapping the clutch in an old piece of shit - granted there is alot I could do with that 13 grand instead of paying for a new car, but it's probably not something I would be doing for 300 a month for 5 years and it certainly would have been eaten up by whatever I was driving in gas anyways - so it's pretty much a wash.

A dodge dart drives as good as new car? Seriously? (insert o'rly owl here) I understand that your Grand Marquis or LTD or Crown Vic or whatever icebox thing that you bought is a turd, but have you even sat an asscheek down in anything else? Go take a Lexus IS350 around the block a few times, or a Camry or something non-big 3 built since Bush has been in office and tell me that a Dart drives that well - I can hop in my Corolla every morning and turn the key and it just starts up - it handles as well as it should be expected from a 4 cylinder front wheel drive car - but it does EVERYTHING that it is supposed to do without any coersion or prethought. The joy comes from NOT having to work on it, NOT having to worry about it, this car is a mode of transportation - I have Morticia and my Buick for automotive enjoyment. Seat covers and an Earl Sheib paint job on a piece of shit is like your girl said - putting lipstick on a pig.

[jlprigmore]

My mother-in-law drives a brand new tiburon. Once I actually wedged myself into it, that thing is a blast to drive, slapstick 6banger, fast as hell for such a little car and only 18000, not bad at all. I'm way too hooked on my hearse to drive anything else as a daily driver, but I would definetely consider a midsized foreign car as a replacement. I'm kind of a big boy, corollas and such are a little claustrophobic for me. When my wife's $500 '02 Focus (aka P.O.S.) dies, I plan on getting her something like a corolla or a tiburon or something along those lines, definetely not another focus though thats for sure.

[Morella]

I think you missed my point, Chris. In this philosophy, when the car needs a new clutch, it's time to take it over the scales and get your $200 for scrap metal, then you take $300 more and buy next year's car with it. I knew someone who didn't even bother changing oil, and he got two or three years' service out of some of these $200-300 shitboxes, always FWD imports, and he would change his ski racks from one car to the next. He had a rack with a blue bumper sticker on one side and a red one on the other, so that oncoming cars at night would think that a cop was coming. That was his sense of humor...he would get along well around here, except that he would never spend the gas money to drive a hearse. He had to look poor, for reasons that I won't go into. He would think nothing of buying a season lift ticket at Timberline, though.

We fix up our cars because it's a hobby, turn the pigs into show horses, and being able to drive them saves us the money we would spend on a new car, if we know what we're doing. People who don't do the maintenance on them end up selling them and ripping someone off, or sending them over the scales looking good...maintenance is a fact of life, IFF you want the car to last. If you paid a few bucks and you don't care, you might as well not do anything, or you'll end up with an "in-between car". I confess to owning one. I just realized that I have had Libriana almost six years. I've spent about $4000 on mechanical work, but that isn't enough for her to be reliable enough to go anywhere, and despite the cosmetic work that I've done, she's still no show piece. I didn't start with enough. It did get me over the soft spot that I've always had in my head for old cars on their last legs, though.

My neighbor has the answer that works for me, and I followed his example when I bought my NY Brougham. Find a clean, well-kept car that is ready to go, and just keep up the scheduled maintenance and inspections. Either do them yourself, or find a good mechanic. When I want to do something fun with it (besides drive it), I do alterations to the NYB to make the design more to my liking.

As for the Lexus, maybe I would like the ride, but for the money that I would spend on one, I could put another (used) tractor on the road, or a used 182 on the flight line for rent. The Lexus would do nothing but lose money for me, whereas the former would pay me money back. Our Piper has gained $10,000 in value, but since it is so old, I won't pay a nickel of tax on it. I just sold it to the company at its original value, and I've never even depreciated it. The last time I checked, my NYB had gained $4k in value despite the gas price, although the value of mine is totally up in the air, since it is so modified.

I may not know the manufacturing and marketing business, but I am a businessperson, and I consider a new car not only a bad investment, but money flushed down the toilet. That's one of the reasons that I'm angry at myself for buying a "certified pre-owned" car, but we were not in business then, and there were so many other circumstances...I won't go through the story again, but Tony doesn't blame me. It's also easier to live with now that it is paid for. Tony will intercept the renewal and get the emissions and plates done behind my back, just to spare my feelings. He has his moments. The state of AZ said that the car was still worth $14,500 last year for the purpose of license tax assessment, but I had tried to sell the car on Ebay when it was 2 years old with 23,000 miles on it, and the best bid I got was $9500. This was a $30,000 car, that would have cost a total of $45,000 to buy new and finance, but even if you ignore the interest, it lost 2/3 of its actual value in two years, clean and with low mileage. That's how much people want American cars.

I have no doubt that a Hyundai Azera would have sold at close to the purchase price. I already knew that I had bought a piece of crap with the Ford, but the "what have I done" feeling doubled when a cow-orker let me drive his Hyundai. I'm a person who has always hated foreign cars, but comparing this Hyundai to a Grand Marquis was like comparing a 74 Town Car to a Datsun 210 Honey Bee.

I always tried to be polite when I talked to Ford sales, service, and corporate, but every one of them was rude to me. They acted like I was threatening to sue them for shitting on my Azelia patch. What that conveys, to me, is that they have had so many angry buyers complaining about their cars that an angry complaint is what they expect to hear when anyone calls them. Even if they were able to get their house of cards in order, they would have to offer the customer a better product, price, and service, and I don't think that they can do it. I'm sorry for the workers, but I think it's time to lock the gates. I have no way of knowing, but if GM and Chrysler are offering the same, I have to say the same for them.

A carmaker needs to know that to sell something that is going to depreciate rapidly, and cost so much money, they need to be honest, offer a good product, and, most of all, respond to their customers' needs. If just one person at Ford had asked, "What do you think we could do that might make you happy?", I might even consider buying a different Ford, or doing business with them in the future, but as it is, everyone is going to hear my opinion of them, and they'll never make another sale to me, even when I get old, close up shop, and decide to blow Jenny's inheritance on a new car to last me to the casket.

-denise

[Psychoholic]

There must also be a balance of what you deem to be important and how much is your time and effort worth in ways of giving a shit about the car. I know several people who buy pieces of shit and drive them till they fall apart and just get another one - it ends up to be cheaper, but that isn't always the goal - safe, reliable, good economy, the most basic of creature comforts are a few things that I would look for over the just overall 'cheap' of the car - I am one of those people who would rather have the bit of creature comfort instead of just the cheap - I also buy name brand foods despite my mom's thought that the 2 lb bag of puffed rice from kroger was just as good as sugar smacks, not because I have any money (and trust me I usually have very little) but because I like to enjoy to not worry about things like if my '74 volare is going to start (but hey, it's paid off right? A tow bill is cheaper than that 300 dollar car payment).

My own situation is pretty awesome - I bought a corolla because of the gas mileage, and I make my carpool partner pay for gas and insurance, so I only pay for the car note.

[HearseHaunter]

My mother-in-law drives a brand new tiburon. Once I actually wedged myself into it, that thing is a blast to drive, slapstick 6banger, fast as hell for such a little car and only 18000, not bad at all. I'm way too hooked on my hearse to drive anything else as a daily driver, but I would definetely consider a midsized foreign car as a replacement. I'm kind of a big boy, corollas and such are a little claustrophobic for me. When my wife's $500 '02 Focus (aka P.O.S.) dies, I plan on getting her something like a corolla or a tiburon or something along those lines, definetely not another focus though thats for sure.

I had a Tiburon when they first came out, '97. I loved that car. 140 hp 2.0L with 5 speed. I only had it a couple of years before it got totaled. I'm actually thinking about finding another one.