My favorite false prophet

[theonlyjohnson]

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941

[Morella]

I have a hard time believing this, as whenever this topic comes up, (a lot of the times started by yourself) you seem to have no trouble letting everyone know what your "truth" is.

If you mean that I'm opinionated and like to argue, well, yeah, I have noticed that about me too. However, when it comes to concepts like universal truth and religious divinity, I really don't care. I've argued religion as a fundie, a Jew, and an atheist while trolling religious boards, and I can't honestly say that I've believed a word of anything that I've said, for or against god(s). It's just fun to argue, especially since people get wrapped up in it emotionally.

I tend to believe that Religion and Science do not have to be mutually exclusive. The Bible has suffered through multiple translations and retellings (if you think this is irrelevant, get a group of a 100 or so people together, tell one of them a story and let them pass it on one by one and then have the last person tell it back to you and see if it is exactly the same.

Then read a Bible verse to 100 people, and you will get at least 100 different interpretations of what it means. My opinion will be that it means nothing, because it has lost everything in the translation. I'm not talking about the literal translation, I'm talking about what the person who wrote it was actually trying to say. I've posted the lyrics to a French song as an example of this...despite the simplicity of the song, no one, not even the most advanced and educated French student can grasp its meaning. But if I posted it here and Xavier happened to read it, he would get it right away, because he lives in France, in this time period. I get it because I'm very familiar with the original artist of the song, and her lyrics. Same thing with the crap that they chose to throw together into various versions of the Bible, only worse...they started with a few hundred books and threw most of it out, kept what fit with their agenda and called it the Holy Word of God. Some people believe it. If that works for them, great.

Now spread that over a couple of thousand years with different languages and multitudes of people). I agree with Ryan. It's the message that is important.

Yes, but nobody really agrees on what the message is.

Anyway, I find it easier to believe that there was a plan to the creation of things rather than chance.

Of course you do. That's natural.

If you have ever tried to win the powerball you would see how improbable it is for it to have happened by chance. And the chances of winning the powerball are much much better.

No, that's not true. It seems to be true from your perspective, because you can't imagine the size of the universe (or whatever is beyond), nor can you conceive of an infinite amount of time and possibilities. It is not natural for a human to be able to. The chances of hitting a Powerball are miniscule in comparison. In fact, if one has studied Calculus and limits, the chances of hitting a Powerball actually goes to zero, not even worth considering, in the grand scheme of things, compared to the chances of anything, including this world and all that we know, happening the way that it did.

Think about the creator whom, you feel, must exist. Where did this creator come from? Did it come about by chance, or was it created too? And if the latter, what created it, and so on? This argument goes nowhere but into a recursion.

In any case, I say we defer all debate about this subject until 200 years from today. Then we will all be better informed of the truth.

I don't care. How about if we take it to a religious board and I play the rabid God-fearing, queer-hating fundamentalist Dr. James Robertson instead? That's actually more fun.

[Guest]

oh, and HAPPY EASTER

[Otto Baron]

In a local paper, someone who posts as KeeptheRepublicanteapartyout, has decided to share with us the true meaning of Christianity. By the way, I'm the one who posts as "Preservationist".

.....But, sadly, for most people on the Christian Right, they only know about one scripture, talking about men lying with men. They missed the parts that quote Jesus mandating giving to the poor and caring for the needy. They I assume that it said guns, hate, bigotry and racism. Poor sad individuals like Preservationist, the Conservative Republicans, the Tea Party in America serve only one God....Conservatism.

Open your Bible, instead of reading that one scripture over and over read all of them and then come back and tell me that what you say is a Christian mindset about busing people out of town or not letting people with a low income live around you. But you are like all Conservative bigots, you don't really care about the less fortunate, only what you can take or bully from someone. Conservative Republicans, now want to take Medicare away from Seniors, leaving them less. They want to strip all health care from all people, except the wealthy. I am sure Jesus would want us to take care of everyone, not just the wealthy. Now, argue that Conservos. Tell me how the Bible wants Christians to push the homeless at someone else and make them someone else issue. Poor sad Preservationist. I feel so bad for him. False Christian.....but typical Conservative Wingnut.

But I'll leave you with this quote....Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, sell what you own. Give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then follow me!" I think you missed that sermon....you were probably out searching for Obama's birth certificate...LOL!!!!!

So the message is clear here. Please sell everything you have, and turn it over to the Government, or face eternal damnation.

[Mohawk Freak]

I always thought that meant to forsake the fleeting nature of the material world and focus on the Spirit of God. If there is anything that is ours to keep, I suspect it would be that.

[Otto Baron]

You can't take it with you, but I guess the message of this individual, is you shouldn't have it in the first place, and if you have anything, you need to give it up. Preferably, you should give it to the Goverment, so they can engage is such worthwhile activities, as spending millions so the Muslim Brotherhood backed Rebels can take over Lybia, and at the same time continue fiighting all those wars that idiot George W. Bush decided we needed to get involved in. Of course, we need to ignore the way the Mexican drug cartels are taking over national parks in this country to grow drugs, because if we took any action to push the Drug cartels off American soil, it could upset our neighbors to the south. By the way, how is that program to supply arms to the Mexican drug lords, so we can tract their movement working out?

[theonlyjohnson]

well in december a border patrol agent was shot by an AK47 that was illegally sold with the permission of the BATFE

[Scary Guy]

Okay first, if you think a hypothesis is a theory then you do not understand the meaning of the word theory, or how the scientific method works.



If the results are true then and only then is it a "theory"

After it's been peer reviewed and the results have been replicated in other laboratories to eliminate errors and bias it's a "accepted theory"

Second, YOU DO NOT GET TO CITE EINSTEIN. http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/einstein.htm

[theonlyjohnson]

I can quote whoever I want.

-Random people in threads all over the internet-

[Mohawk Freak]

Scary, do you insist that the religious interpretations of "God" are the only possible explaination of a greater power which could exist,and if it cannot be proven by them, there is none of any sort? Science can prove how something works and that is very valid, but what put it in place is a mystery to science and religion. Whatever any school of thought wishes to believe, nobody can prove anything in that regard.

[Morella]

You can't take it with you, but I guess the message of this individual, is you shouldn't have it in the first place, and if you have anything, you need to give it up. Preferably, you should give it to the Goverment, so they can engage is such worthwhile activities, as spending millions so the Muslim Brotherhood backed Rebels can take over Lybia, and at the same time continue fiighting all those wars that idiot George W. Bush decided we needed to get involved in. Of course, we need to ignore the way the Mexican drug cartels are taking over national parks in this country to grow drugs, because if we took any action to push the Drug cartels off American soil, it could upset our neighbors to the south. By the way, how is that program to supply arms to the Mexican drug lords, so we can tract their movement working out?

Many good points here. And I might add, don't forget the war that the idiot Obama just decided that we needed to get involved in, Lybia.

I was ready to let the birth certificate thing go until I saw that really bad fake that he just released. Now I know that he has something to hide, so I'm all for looking into this a little further.

[Mohawk Freak]

Please explain why anyone would have reason to believe Obama was not born here.

[EternalCombustion]

Okay first, if you think a hypothesis is a theory then you do not understand the meaning of the word theory, or how the scientific method works.

I do understand.
From dictionary.com
—Synonyms
1. Theory, hypothesis are used in non-technical contexts to mean an untested idea or opinion. A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena: the theory of relativity. A hypothesis is a conjecture put forth as a possible explanation of phenomena or relations, which serves as a basis of argument or experimentation to reach the truth: This idea is only a hypothesis.

I understand that you are correct, technically. Non-technically both words are interchangeable. I never meant to imply that religion was technical.

No, that's not true. It seems to be true from your perspective, because you can't imagine the size of the universe (or whatever is beyond), nor can you conceive of an infinite amount of time and possibilities. It is not natural for a human to be able to. The chances of hitting a Powerball are miniscule in comparison. In fact, if one has studied Calculus and limits, the chances of hitting a Powerball actually goes to zero, not even worth considering, in the grand scheme of things, compared to the chances of anything, including this world and all that we know, happening the way that it did.

You really have no idea what I'm capable of imagining or conceiving. You can only make a guess on what you know about me from this board.

I like to consider myself rather opened minded. I'm sure that you will disagree saying that I'm closing off scientific evidence. But, I am always very interested in scientific evidence and I don't believe there is a scientist today that will say that they have learned all there is to learn.

As far as the chances of winning the powerball. That chance is 1 out of 195,249,054.00, or as you say essentially zero (agreed). Vs. "the chances of anything, including this world and all that we know, happening the way that it did." Which as you state is one possibility out of infinite possibilities or 1 out of infinite. Now granted, infinite time does allow quite a bit of opportunities for this 1 possibility out of infinite to occur. But, you have to be fair, if you allow infinite time for this to happen then you must also allow infinite time for 1 set of powerball numbers to come up. Unless you want to start discussing quantum physics, in which some say that all of these infinite possibilities occur in parallel dimensions.

In any case I agree that the argument is useless, not to mention tiring. So, I leave you to it. The internet is like our universe, ever expanding and there are for more interesting things to look at.

[Scary Guy]

Scary, do you insist that the religious interpretations of "God" are the only possible explaination of a greater power which could exist,and if it cannot be proven by them, there is none of any sort? Science can prove how something works and that is very valid, but what put it in place is a mystery to science and religion. Whatever any school of thought wishes to believe, nobody can prove anything in that regard.

As far as god goes, I doubt the creation of the universe and our existence here has anything to do with the Abrahamic religions. As far as Deism/Ignosticism go I can see that. If you want to call the universe itself god, I suppose it could be an appropriate title. Even still, Occam's Razor is a powerful tool and I like to side with whatever is more likely.

Quantum theory is fun too though, and if it is true I'm sure there are an infinite number of universes in where we don't exist because the conditions were never right for it.