So who do you like for the 2012 presidential election (Politics)

[LMS]

[Riccardo]

That's funny pic, LMS!

By the way, what do you think Donald Trump would run for the President? That's what my grandpa told me he has seen on the news.

[Otto Baron]

Trump said he would not run for President.

[Riccardo]

Trump said he would not run for President.

If so, then forget him! Which is the the best President of the USA? Name 'em please!

[Otto Baron]

Rob Zombie. As President, he'd be too busy to make crappy horror film remakes. Stephanie Myers as his veep, to spare us any more of her literally drivel.

[Mohawk Freak]

So what is the allure of a strong alliance with Israel?

I'd like to see a Palestine state created and give those people back their land.

It's rare I hear anyone consider their point of view. It was a horror show what Hitler did to the Jews, but that didn't entitle them to run people off their land. What happened in Palestine was not much different from the plight of the American Indians. Knuckle under, get out or die.

[Riccardo]

Rob Zombie. As President, he'd be too busy to make crappy horror film remakes. Stephanie Myers as his veep, to spare us any more of her literally drivel.

Very funny! ha ha

[Riccardo]

By the way, me and my grandpa just saw on TV news tonight.... Rudy Giuliani and some other guy are talking about presidential electional for next year.... I don't remember other guys name...

[Scary Guy]

As far as Israel vs Palestine goes there have been atrocities on both sides. Here's a fun documentary to put some things into perspective http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...26245072381061

[Otto Baron]

The Palestinians were not "run off their land". They vacated the land, so the Muslims could come in and exterminate the Jewish People, right after the Jewish state was founded. There has been a continuous Jewish presence in this region since before the Romans came in and persecuted them, followed by the Muslims invading the region and persecuting them, followed by the crusaders comming in and persecuting them, followed by the Muslims kicking the crusaders out, and continuing to persecute them. But for over two thousand years, there has been a Jewish presence in the area, and until the state of Isreal was founded, the Jews were second class citizens in the area, ever since they were conquered by the Romans, who called the place Palestine.
In the 19th century, some Jewish people decided they wanted a homeland, and they started buying up the swampland and other worthless land in the region, and actually made it productive. Because of Zionism, wealthy Jews in Europe were paying far more then this land was worth, and the Ottoman Turks (who were not Arabs by the way) were more then happy to unload this festering pusshole on people who were foolish enough to buy it. The Jewish people made a real difference in this area, but during WW1, the British went to war with the Turks, and began to build up Arab Nationalsim to create an ally against the Turks. While the British were promising the Jewish people thier homeland in order to gain support of the Jewish community against the Turks, the British were promising the same land to the Arabs to gain their favor.
After the war, the British divided Palestine up into two regions. Jewish Palestine, and Arab Palestine. Arab Palestine became known as Jordan. Between the world wars, England basically supported anti semitism by restricting Jewish immigration into what was supposed to be Jewish Palestine, while allowing unlimited arab immigration. After the war, the people of the region wanted the British out; and of course, the Jewish people, sick of the double dealing of the British, were no exception. The UN finally allowed the Jewish people who lived in the area to have a state, and that state was called Isreal. Jews have always been a convenient target among hateful bigots, and Muslims are among the biggest hateful bigots you'll find. Unable to handle the idea of a non muslim government in the region, the Muslims ganged up on the new state of Isreal, and failed to exterminate it. The Muslims who vacated Isreal, to avoid being subject to collateral damage while the extermination took place, had hoped to grab up the property of the exterminated Jews. But instead of grabbing some dead families land and possesions, instead they found they were not allowed back in the country. I don't honestly know any sane person who thinks it would be a good idea to allow people who want you dead to return as your neighbor. The Palestinians who didn't vacate the land, were not removed, and that's why there are Muslims in the Jewish Parliment. It also says a lot about the Muslims that they refuse to allow their fellow Muslim Palestinians to immigrate into the neighboring countries, so they will no longer be refugees. A second attempt to exterminate Isreal, happened again in 1967, and another failed attempt took place in the 1970's. Still the Muslims in the area hold on to their dream of a Jew free middle east.
So does anybody really believe that if Isreal was extinguished, we'd be at last at peace with the Muslims? Spain found peace with the Muslims by kicking them out of the country. The Muslims were at war with Europe until the Ottoman Empire grew so weak, the attempted Muslim Takeover of Europe failed. If Isreal was finally defeated, I have no doubt that the Muslims would be in a better position to go back to their favorite hobby, and that is doing something about all those damn infidels in Europe and America, who should be under Muslim Control.

[Guest]

So what is the allure of a strong alliance with Israel?

I'd like to see a Palestine state created and give those people back their land.

well, for starters, they are the only democracy in the region, and they are a small bastion of western culture surrounded by a sea of authoritarian and brutal theocratic islamist regimes. never-mind that most of these said regimes want to wipe them off the face of the planet. Israel also has a kick-ass military, and you never know when that might come in handy, like say for joint covert strikes against iran, etc, etc.

also - from a different point of view - israel is god's chosen nation, and the bible is quite specific that god will bless them that bless israel, and curse them that curse israel. also, for the most part i consider the palestinians a bunch of rock-throwing, self-exploding terrorist, governed by an even worse group of bloodthirsty cunt-waffles. Not to mention the fact that the jewish people represent pretty much the oldest and most persecuted nation on the planet. i think they deserve their own state, and deserve to be free from rock-throwing douchebags. but that's just my personal opinion.