THE PLOT THICKENS-VIN# HELP?

[kitkong]

I have a 1959 Superior Crowne Royale,......no VIN tag, or numbers, that can be seen or found............however...........I HAVE found, and been told 2 things.........

1. A service tag located on the inside of the driver's door pillar shows an engine#, faint, but it is there.......59245047............could this be the VIN?

2. The Trim tag is present atop the firewall, just forward of the windshield on the driver's side............I've been told, if one knows how to read it, it is the VIN#?
Near as I can decode........


Style: 59
Body style? 6890
Body Number? DC1486


It actualy reads........(looks like this)


STYLE 59 6890BODYDC 1486


Is anyone an expert on this mystery of the VIN#?

-----kitkong

[LMS]

Don't know for sure, took me forever to find the vin on our 49. It was stamped on the frame in the engine compartment on the passenger side.

[kitkong]

found it!

There was so much old grease/dirt it obscurred the number on the block in the back.

[pyro]

The service manual for a 59 sais the engine serial # (vin) is on the top flange of the frame, left side. The pics shows it next to the left exh manifild, right under the brake line, before it turns out to the wheel. The DMV will want to see the vin on the frame. BTW, the engine serial number is the VIN. The VIN identification process didnt start till 65?, so the engine serial number is what they want, and your car will start with 59

[kitkong]

So how do you show a VIN# to the DMV that's on a frame of a car that doesn't run, or roll very well?!

[chestypuller]

tow truck?

[pyro]

Put it on a trailer, or have a 3rd party vehicle inspector come to your house. I did the later, and cost me 35.00 The person is certified by the state, and leaves paperwork with you to take to the DMV.

[Dickey]

The service manual for a 59 sais the engine serial # (vin) is on the top flange of the frame, left side. The pics shows it next to the left exh manifild, right under the brake line, before it turns out to the wheel. The DMV will want to see the vin on the frame. BTW, the engine serial number is the VIN. The VIN identification process didnt start till 65?, so the engine serial number is what they want, and your car will start with 59

VINs have been around for some time, well before 1965, but before the early 80s they did not have to subscribe to the 17 digit standard we employ today is all.

[pyro]

VINs have been around for some time, well before 1965, but before the early 80s they did not have to subscribe to the 17 digit standard we employ today is all.

Your correct about the VIN being around for some time, but since we are discussing a cadillac, the VIN was not used on the 59 cadillac. The engine serial number was used.

[Dickey]

My 57 coupe has an id tag above the door latch and a matching number cast on the engine, aside from two letters that I was told simply identify the body style as a coupe. I had thought this was what is implied by a numbers matching car of the era. Am I mistaken in this?


edit - went and did some searching to make sure I wasn't just imagining stuff; it has been a while since I laid eyes on my 57

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200672

So the id tag on the doorjam may or may not be there depending on how the car is treated, but there is definitely one on the frame rail and it uniquely identifies the chassis. On my 58 and 57 this number is used as the ID number for the vehicles' titles. Why isn't this number considered a VIN with regards to a Cadillac?

[pyro]

The engine serial number is regarded as the VIN, by the DMV. But when you get into the nuts and bolts of being correct, its an engine serial number. The Government did not mandate the VIN for all vehicles at the time our cars were made.

[Dickey]

While I agree that the government did not have mandated VINs and their current standard until the 80s, nearly all car manufacturers had been employing unique identification numbers for the vehicles they produced since the 1930s including Cadillac. You could switch engines from one car to the next and the ID number was still associated with the vehicle, not the engine. The trouble was that the simple use of Make/Model and ID number was often less than convenient for locating particular automobiles across various motor vehicle departments for insurance details and other fraud prevention needs. A new standard for all new production vehicles was employed so that the mostly unrelated data could have a specifically formatted ID tag that tied it all together and made research easier.

[Christian Howard]

From mine...

I also have a 1959 Superior Crown Royale and had to go through the same problems as yourself, mine is Crown Royale Combination Car (you didn't specify if yours was a landaulet, combination etc that I saw).
The tag on the top of the fire wall (driver's side) is the body plate. The number 6890 is the Cadillac series number of which means "Commercial Chassis". What was delivered to coach companies to build upon. Other cadillac's have series numbers like series 75 for limos, etc.
The plate below that on the front of fire wall in the engine bay near the brake reseviour is Superior's model number and your car's production line number, the production line number is admittedly a guess on my part. However, here are the break-outs for Superior model numbers for 1959 Crown Royale Series from Superior, the Complete History:
D604 Funeral Coach, DL604 Funeral Coach, landaulet, D601 Funeral Coach, Three Way Manual, D602 Funeral Coach, Three way Power, DL601 Funeral Coach three way manual Landaulet, DL602 Funeral Coach three way power Landaulet, D604C Combination Car with Rev. Rollers, DL604C Combination Car Landaulet with Rev. Rollers, D606 Ambulance 42" headroom, DL606 Ambulance Landaulet 42" headroom.
The engine number should be the same as the VIN number for this year of our car -if the engine was never swapped out. By the way the third digit SHOULD read Z not 2 indicating comercial chassis, dont let that one trip you up when dealing with the DMV and titles. This holds true for both my 1962 Cadillac M&M 3-way and my 1959 Cadillac Superior Combination. If both block and frame numbers match you know what that means.
Your frame's VIN number is stamped in and is located on the top of the frame rail, driver's side just behind radiator's core support, but in front of the inner fenderwell. I had to locate my numbers for state certification inspection prior to proceeding with the other title work required in Colorado, I don't know other state's requirements by DMV.
I hope this helps. Hope to see some pictures sometime? -Cheers

[Haasmama]

Christian; That is exactly what the DMV did with my 62... read the Z as a 2 and now, I have to go Pyro's route with a Third party inspector.

[pyro]

Bring the service manual with you to the DMV, and show the clowns the body style coding. Most of th etime those clowns are guessing anyways.