429 to 472

[nosferatu429]

got a 429 in my 65 caddy, that i can not get to run. Been sitting for 25+ years. Thinking bout pulling it to restore it. What I was wondering was if a 472/500 would fit right in without any modifications, so i could atleast make it run while working on the 429(that might take awhile).....just like to atleast have it driveable. How easy is a cheap 472 to find nowadays?
Figured it be easier to find a 472 than a 429.

[hotroddwayne]

The 429 was only used for a few years (late 1964 - 1967) and has the reputation for being a "soft" engine. I have one in my '66 ambo and love it. Doubt it would be a "bolt-in" project & would require motor mount mods, exhaust, etc. but can be done with some fab skills. The easiest would be to buy a donor car that runs well so you can install the new drivetrain as one, onto your driveshaft and go from there with mounts. Haven't done this swap yet so can't speak from experience on it, not even sure if the oil pans went from rear sump to front sump... these are things you need to research before doing a "transplant" so keep us posted on your progress. I'd focus on the 429, i've had good luck with mine and they run strong. If it's not locked up spend the time now to get it running, if it's not hurt you have a lot less work ahead and save some cash too fixing what you have.

[Creepy Cruiser]

Also one thing to keep in mind, '65 429 parts are different than any other year 429 (rings, timing set, etc...). So you'll probably run into the same thing I ran into, and that was, we would order stuff for a '65 and they would send me stuff for a '66, because they think just because it's a 429, that they are all the same. It took about 3 months of ordering and returning to finally end up with the correct parts.

I love my 429, and I'm glad I went through everything that I did and kept it original, instead of doing a swap like I was going to do.

There's nothing like a killer looking 429.

[hotroddwayne]

Great info Creepy... always good to know details about the oddball differences between blocks... and even differences between years.

You're SO lucky to be able to cruise without a heater assembly. Firewall & engine look awesome bud!

[travlinman]

Im doing almost the same thing now. I will be replacing the 429 with a 454 in the 64. Main deal with Me is replacing the jetaway. Finding a 1 year only turbo 400 and having it shipped has come too an end. A $700 adapter is also out of the question . I have a running 500 , but finding an Eldorado pan and a good set of ex manifolds didn't work out either. The 64 is rear sump, don't know about Your 65 since You don't have the X frame, if it's front sump that will make it easier as the 472/500s are also front sumps.Guy's on the modifiedcadillac board have done both. You may have to notch the front frame for the oil pump and fuel pump. An electric fuel pump and a 425 oil pump gave more room, but I think it was still notched to get the engine to sit low enough. Actually if I was in Your shoes and have a good tranny, I would redo the 429 and drop it right back in. Will a 472/500 bolt up to the 429 tranny? I don't think so, but have been wrong before.

[nosferatu429]

thanks for all the info. i'll definitly keep my 429, its just with limited funds it might take a while to go through it. was hoping to atleast make it a runner while working on the original motor.

[cupcake]

A friends 65 has been changed to a 425/400. Was that way when he got it. And since the 425 is basically the same as the 472 size wise etc yes it will fit. I havent looked close at the mounts or anything but can get pics or info if you need them

[Dickey]

The 425, 472 and 500 caddy motors all share the same architecture details with regards to bellhousing patterns, accessory mounting bosses and motor mount locations. Cadillac also made a 368 version in this family. The 429 is not in the same family as the later model big blocks though. Bellhousing pattern and motor mount details aside, the jetaway transmission nosferatu has doesn't even have a torque converter in the sense that is found with a th350 or th400 transmission. Mating the later engine's flexplate to the older style fluid couple input for the jetaway may be problematic. If you pull the motor to take some measurements there won't be as much guessing though. I've got a 472 to compare the measurements to as well.

What is the explicit condition of the 429? Can you turn it over by hand if you remove the spark plugs? Have you gone through the ignition and carburetor details? The 390 in my Eureka sat for over 20 years before I got it to run and I haven't ever seen an unseized engine that couldn't be made to at least run poorly.

[travlinman]

He should have a turbo 400 in the 65. 1964 was the last year of the jetaway in comm chassis and some other 1. Other model caddys in 64 got the turbo. I actually have brass plates with the car saying hydromatic. My engine at 1 time was swapped with a 64 deville engine, according to the engine numbers, which should have been set up for a turbo, but has the hydromatic. If your shift lever all the way to right is L, You have a turbo. R all the way right is a hydromatic or jetaway, which ever You call it.

[Dickey]

I didn't know that about the commercial chassis. With yours did you have a th400 with a unique bellhousing casting, an adapter plate or does the bolt pattern remain the same from the 429 family to the 472 family?

[travlinman]

My 64 had the jetaway. It's the same pattern as the earlier 390s. No converter, it has the hydrolic coupling. The 64 turbo was the 1 year only deal that had the adapter ring. In 65, it was produced with the correct bellhousing for the caddy. The 64 was a maxed out 390 block. The 65 429 I believe was a total new design. I'm still getting conflicting info on if the 65 tranny will bolt to the 64, bolt pattern wise. The 64 with the jetaway has a different crank than the one with the 400. I know the flywheel has to be enlarged. The starter on the 64 CC also bolts to the tranny, not the block, not sure on the 65s. The adapters I have scene are for the 390/1964 429 and the 368/425/472/500 family, so They are different. A 500 adapter to Chevy, about $100. The 64 429 runs about $700. There must be a hell of a difference.

[Dickey]

Likely just demand. Even today the 500 is the junkyard jewel for hotrodding on the cheap so plenty of guys are using them while both the engine and transmission are plentiful. The old style cadillac to th400 adapter is likely a custom item and that price is in line with a one off bellhousing adapter from Kennedy engineering and the like.

[nosferatu429]

whats a 425 out of, what year?

[cupcake]

77and later IIRC. The 500 replaced the 472 then the 425 replaced that and in the 80's it went to the 368