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**STODD** · 08-02-2009, 06:45 PM

Check your grounds. Ford products are notorious for grounding problems. Don't eyeball them either. Pull cables and clean them.

I'd be willing to bet Krystal or Coach Builders built that Lincoln.

**Venom** · 08-02-2009, 07:09 PM

yup, sounds like a ground problem with some things working and some not
I'd check the alternator too while I was at it just out of principal

**LadyChauffer** · 08-02-2009, 08:03 PM

Alternator is working fine. Had it taken to get it tested. My first thought was the alternator. My next thought maybe starter, so I took that off too. That's fine. Looked at grounds and cleaned them just to be sure. All clean. Fuses are good. I did notice the posts are abnormally corroded on the posts. We just got the battery a month ago. So I had the batt tested as well. I'm at a loss. Do you think a low idle could be the problem? Maybe a bad wiring harness?

As for her being Coach builders or Krystal, no tag and why would they build her that late in life? She was already a 10 yer old car. They even put a T.V instead of a flat screen. And a VCR. Not the most up to date conversion. Krystal is usually a bit more up scale than that.

**Custom Coffin Works** · 08-02-2009, 08:59 PM

Starting system is separate from the charging system. If it would not start but all the lights and accessories still worked then I would look at the starter. This is most likely a ground issue as mentioned. I had an 82 mustang that would be just fine going down the road, then out of nowhere everything just shut down...while coasting to a stop it would suddenly fire back up! Turned out to be a bad ground at the firewall. The charging system should run the car with the battery completely disconnected (while running). If you pull the negative cable off the car while it's idling and it dies, it's a charging problem. Might not be an alternator being bad, but it does need a good ground to excite the rectifiers in the alternator to charge. Checking the alternator off the car is a bit misleading as it is almost always grounded properly while being checked. Try to have them check it while still on the car. If you can try to wiggle the ground cable while they are doing the check. Grab (carefully mind you) the harness going to the back of the alternator while the testing is going on and give it a wiggle as well. I think you might just find a lose connection.
The fact that the rear power did not work ether tells me it might be at the source. The rear power supply battery has to be charged by something. That would be the alternator. Just my two cents.

**Custom Coffin Works** · 08-02-2009, 09:04 PM

Speaking of two cents...here's a tip for the corroded battery post. Take two pennies and stick them to the top off the battery with glue. This will cause the corrosion to form on the copper first. Once they get fully corroded pop the off and replace with a new pair. Clean the old ones off with some baking soda and water.

**STODD** · 08-02-2009, 10:50 PM

Do not pull any cable while the car is running!!! EEC systems are extremely sensitive to voltage spikes. Also, all the electronic controls are operated by grounds. Removing the positive or negative cable while the vehicle is running will most likely damage the PCM and it's grounding controls - like injectors, instrument cluster, hego(O2 sensors), and solid state regulator, to name just a few.

DO NOT REMOVE ANY CABLE WHILE THE VEHICLE IS RUNNING!!!

**LadyChauffer** · 08-03-2009, 07:52 AM

Don't worry man, I know enough about cars not to leave the car running while doing that. Thanks for the warning nonetheless. Took the car out and drove it for a little yesterday. Didn't act up until I got it on the innerstate. Lost dash lights and parking lights and had no powersteering. It almost acted like it was the serpentine. I checked that, and it was nice and tight and looked good. I think I have gremlins. Maybe that's why the other owner got rid of the car and did a flat out trade with me for my 40th anniversary Corvette. He must have known something I didn't. And now I'm just finding out that the car is inhabited with electrical gremlins. I'm still confused. So, today I am gonna have to break down and spend the couple hundred bucks at the Lincoln dealership. I hate dealerships. They are always so expensive for parts and labor.

**Custom Coffin Works** · 08-03-2009, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by STODD View Post

Do not pull any cable while the car is running!!! EEC systems are extremely sensitive to voltage spikes.[/B]

After doing some research on this, based on Stodd's comment...I humbly agree. I have never had any issues come up from doing that, however my mentor was an older mechanic so I can see why these new fangled computer cars retired him. Thanks for the correction without me having to get out my flame suit.

**STODD** · 08-04-2009, 08:39 AM

Anytime.

When cars were run off of generators and regulators with no solid state guts in them, your test would ring true. It was an accepted diagnostic procedure when I first started wrenching, however, no more. Today's new cars have more computing power than your PC and are extremely sensitive to power and grounding issues.

**Custom Coffin Works** · 08-04-2009, 11:22 AM

Well then just hit the Control-Alt-Delete button and just reboot it!

**STODD** · 08-04-2009, 02:03 PM

LOL!
Man, sometimes I wished it were that simple.

**LadyChauffer** · 08-04-2009, 05:29 PM

Yeah, me too. Three finger salute is how I fix most of my computer problems. lol. Why is it when the other owner is out of town, our kids (the cars and busses) misbehave? My other bus is having an alternator problem and we just had the damn thing rebuilt a month ago and the bus is also peeing tranny fluid all over the shop. erg. Never fails. ::bangs head repeatedly on brick wall::

In any case, thanks for all your suggestions. I'm off work now and heading towards the shop to see if I can make her in to the Lincoln dealer before they close. I hate dealers. They charge to friggin much. Too bad there wasn't anyone in Omaha or Council Bluffs that worked specifically on Limos. ... and wasn't our competition. I'd take it to VIP limousine, but they'd probably ruin the limo to take us out of the game. lol.

**LadyChauffer** · 08-04-2009, 09:19 PM

Ok, so it is officially gremlins. The car checked out at the Lincoln dealership just fine. Ironically, after I drove her off the lot, I barely made it into the shop. It did the same thing, yet again. I am noticing that it starts the problem after it has been running for an hour or more. The Lincoln dealership ran a computer scan on it as well. Everything is fine electrically. They did notice a harmonic on one of the lifters and a very light knock but they told me that wouldn't interfere with the electrical system of the car. And, without knowing who the maker of the car was, there is no available wiring diagram to diagnose if it is a ground issue that is internal. They did tell me that the secondary battery (possibly a backup for starting) that is behind the passenger's front seat, is actually from a motorcycle. They reccommended a large marine battery. But, it's only a backup battery and it's charging just fine.

So, I am back to square one. Any ideas as to what company would do a 200in stretch on a 10 year old car? The conversion was done in 2000. I know that he mentioned that the guy he got her from payed 40K for the stretch. We got the car in Exira, IA. It was a White Lightening Limousine fleet vehicle. I need to find a wiring diagram for this car.

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Electrical prob with 91 Town Car Limo

Electrical prob with 91 Town Car Limo

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